1961 XLCH

[hennesse]

Chad,

Here's a good example to practice your Sportster-spotting skills on: http://baltimore.craigslist.org/mcy/4823059334.html

1961 XLCH - Good-looking, good running, clean title. Except that it's about 8% original, not 80%

Look at Craigslist Photo #2, then look at Dave Carlton's 1961, 1967, and 1969 in the Gallery section. See if you can match the Craigslist parts to parts on Dave's bikes. You won't find some of them, as they're even later model. I picked out just a few of the AMCA categories...

Frame / Fork
-- note the lower triple tree cover - what years?
-- rear shock absorbers - what years?
Front Fender
-- yeah, it's partially cut off, but look at how it mounts
Handlebar / Grips / Controls / Comp Release
-- ???
Headlight / Magneto
-- headlight - look at the two-hump ring holding the lens on. This one's half-chrome, half black. Usually the two-humpers are all chrome. - what years?

Two-hump headlight

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Oil Tank / Oil Lines
-- tank - what years?
Chain Guard / Primary Cover
-- primary cover - what years?
Seat and Seat Springs
-- Look at Murph's 1962, as all three of Dave's bikes have the standard two-people seat, not the optional solo seat
-- ????
Front Brake / Clutch
-- front brake drum - what years?

Now look at Craigslist Photo 4
Chain Guard / Primary Cover
-- chain guard - what years?
Engine / Transmission
-- cam cover - what years? (this is important, and I've included a blow-up photo since it'd hard to see in the original)
-- air cleaner - ???

Cam cover blow-up

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So - your conclusion (fill in the blanks): This is a 1961 engine in a 196__ or 196__ chassis, with 1970's _____ and _____, and at least one 196__ part on the engine,
and some custom/chopper _____, _____, and _____.

The "structured methodology" of going through the AMCA categories and comparing the subject bike to known good examples makes it pretty easy to analyze a bike. The AMCA categories may seem a little bizarre at first, but they work pretty well for any year, make and model of bike.
Dave

[Zaemo]

Right,
I now have the Spare Parts Catalog and have the Sporty Parts catalog PDF for reference in addition to the Tech pages here. The section on frames is very informative by the way.

First look for me is the gas tank. This has FLH emblems on it. Easy.

The engine is a 61 but the cam cover is 68 and later due to the ribs. This version does not have the electric start cut out corner.

The oil tank is 66 and later. Can I assume that the frame must have the correct tabs to mount this? I can not see the hole shape on the upper engine mount.

61 should have single drum front wheel. Rear is wrong smaller 16".

Front fender is 70 and later.

Air cleaner and shocks are wrong bolt on custom parts.

Can't figure out the headlight origin. Doesn't seem to be on bikes up to 68 though.

Chain guard doesn't fit the rear sprocket radius.

Handlebars don't have internal cable setup. It seems that once risers are installed, all bets are off there.

Seat is aftermarket due to exposed springs and no plunger setup.

Lower triple tree cover starts in 64.

Do I have it down to 8% original yet? Seems like it.

Z

[hennesse]

Excellent work!

I wasn't quite sure whether the gas tank was a custom or a later model with mounts added for the emblems. The guy in Boston with the 61 made a big deal of the "2-bung gas tank", and according to the Raino brothers, the two-bung XLCH tank was used from 1958 to 1965. More down below.

I think you are correct that the early horseshoe oil tank will not mount on the 66-later XLCH frame. So turning this back into a 1961 would be no simple task. There are so many variations of frames that it sends my poor brain into overload. Jerry and Scott, who wrote the frame document, are the experts on frames. I have no idea how they managed to figure all this stuff out. And I love all the names they coined - "lunchbox", "wedding band", etc.

I think the 2-hump headlight ring is used on 1963-later XLCH. Not sure how much later.

Keep going! You're really getting the hang of Sportster-spotting!

Dave


Here's a excerpt from an earlier email from the Raino's:

Happy Almost Freezing Winter to Everyone,

My brother Jack and I have been pondering the 2 “Bung” CH tank that I think was used from 58 through 65. Here is what we think we know and are hoping someone out there can either confirm our beliefs or tell us we’re wrong and why.

We think there were two versions, an early and a late. We think the tank on the left in the first picture is an early one with the 2nd bung hole cut and welded in following Harley’s age old tradition of not wasting anything. We think they simply took the KR racing tank and added the right side gas outlet and did this until they came out with the factory engineered two bung tank shown on the right in the first picture. The second picture is just another example of what we believe to be the early tank. The 3rd and 4th pictures are just other shots of the early one. If you look at the first picture you can see there is a slight difference in the bottom panel of the tanks.

What do you think? Does anyone have an early 2 bung CH tank or two to help confirm or refute our thinking here? If we’re right does anyone know about when the transition took place?

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[hennesse]

While we're on the subject of gas tanks, here is a trio of Harley Model 125 (predecessor to the Hummer) gas tanks to compare with the double-bung XLCH tanks. The single bung is at the left rear (viewed from the top), in the same place as the plugged-up one on the early XLCH.

Model 125/Model 165 Gas Tanks

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The Model 125 came out in 1948 with the same shape tank as the XLCH. The Model 125's filler was offset to the right, and on the left was a ~3" diameter recess for the key switch, which was the same switch used on big twins of the period. Wires from the switch went through a ~1" tunnel and out the bottom of the tank. In 1953, the Model 165 replaced the Model 125, and ran through 1959 with the same tank. From 1955 -1959, the 125cc Hummer, and the 1960-1966 variously-named-models used a similar tank, except the recess and tunnel for the switch was removed, as those models had no ignition switch - like many XLCH's!

Apparently, in the mid-1950's, Harley adapted the Model 125/165 tank for use on the KR racers (See the 1955 Brad Andres photo on this page over at http://www.HarleyKRXLRTT.com, but the filler was prudently moved to the center of the tank. The petcock bung remained the same, as both the Model 125/165 and the KR's carburators were on the left side of the bike.

Then in 1958, the XLCH was born. The XL carburator was on the right side of the bike. As Jerry and Jack speculate, Harley probably just added another bung to the KR tank, first by field-fitting, then by regular production methods, to make the XLCH tank. Production figures for the racing models are unreliable, but there were probably enough KR's sold that Harley just kept the double-bung to fit both until then end of 1965.

You might be wondering - from 1955 through 1965, why did Harley make both the Hummer (no switch, offset filler), and KR/XLCH (centered filler) tanks? Wouldn't have been easier to adopt a one-tank-fits-all policy? Well, the answer is that the 2-stroke Hummer still had the convenient oil measure attached to the gas cap, and it would have hit the tunnel in the center of the tank, so it had to remain offset.

Model 125/165 Gas Cap w/ oil measure

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My question is: why did the KR tanks have a centered filler? All the dirt tracks I've seen run counter-clockwise, which would put the Hummer's offset filler on the high side. This would minimize any leakage through the cap seal, where the centered filler would be more prone to leakage.

And why do we park in a driveway, and drive on a parkway?

Dave

[DaveC]

Dr Dick,

What is the carb model number on your 68XLCH,? Is it a HD1B or HD1C?

Thanks

DaveC

[dr dick]

the the carb that cam with this bikes isnt the orig
it a parts dept replacement, a 'd' with a 70 casting date wheel.

i am 75% sure 'c' is the correct fitment.

[DaveC]

Thanks and given the number of original 68's I have seen , all with the 1C I would agree.

[dr dick]

heres what i think.
i dont know for sure.
66 hd1a no forked inlet needle, no cotter pin at throttle block to arm attachment, riveted instead (some with friction spring some without). no check ball in plastic cover.

67 hd1b opposite of the above.

68 hd1c difference in idle porting positions. and maybe a difference in econimizer jet size.

69 i dont know. ('neto- whats on all your 69's?)

70 and 71 hd1d.

i used to know all this stuff but it got erased from my noodle somehow. maybe too much fun did it in.
ill bet john andrews knows it all. he was buying direct from tillotson for his 45mm tillys back in the mid 70s.

[curiousgeorge]

In the pics from the Raino bros, I think, the tank on the right has a vent nipple by the forward or right bung. Is that an addition or is that a factory fitment? On a pic of a XLR posted by the French Owl , I believe his bike, the vent nipple is in the standard CH location. Just trying to gain a little XLR info.

[Yard Dog]

when I acquired that tank, I assumed the vent line had been cobbed on by a previous owner. After seeing similar work on several of the larger tanks, I now hold the possibility that it was a transitional factory modification for an early 66 ?? My XLR knowledge is minimal at best , so I can't speak to that , but I would love to hear others opinions !

Jack