Buddy Seat Identification

Production K Models

Buddy Seat Identification

Postby hennesse » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:43 pm

Is this the correct buddy seat for the 1954 KH ?

The 1957 parts book show one with a raised lip at the back end. This one does not have it. It's hard to find photos of them - The Legend Begins, and most pictures of restored bikes have the solo seat.

Thanks,
Dave
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DMH_002304.jpg
DMH_002304.jpg (12.93 KiB) Viewed 19843 times
DMH_002306.jpg
DMH_002306.jpg (17.61 KiB) Viewed 19843 times
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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby EKHKHK56 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:35 am

Dave, looks like early style, K. I`ll pull mine and look at it closer. I think they were leather, than they went to a more water proof type material, forget what year, think that change is listed in the History. They were smooth with no tail bump. 52-56 K Spare Parts lists one 52-56 but I think they changed material. (Or maybe it was the solo seat that got the change in material for the cover.) Have to check on that. Erik
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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby John R » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:53 pm

Hi Dave

I would say you have the correct Buddy Seat for a '54. In the '55 Accessory Catalog they announce the 'New Buddy Seat' which is as the photo attached, but they keep the old part number. The covering is thin Royalite, but full details in the 'grab' from the catalog.

A hefty beast weighing nearly 17 pounds, and looks like it was built for a tank! See those hex-head set-screws securing the leather strip for the top cover to be sewn to - 47 of them, count 'em!

It's too short for comfort with two-on, so I use a later Sportster seat (also Royalite on top) when needed. Afraid of the Royalite cracking on the K seat as it has on the Sporty one.

John
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RIMG0189.JPG (147.12 KiB) Viewed 19791 times
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RIMG0185.JPG
RIMG0185.JPG (103.28 KiB) Viewed 19791 times
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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby EKHKHK56 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:57 pm

Nice John, thanks a lot for the good info!
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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby hennesse » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:18 pm

Thanks John.

My seat is also a hefty beast. I just posted a few photographs from Oley in the Gallery section - the 58 XLH over there has the same buddy seat as mine, and in about the same condition.

I have a bunch more photos from Oley - two 1955 KHKs, a 1953 KRM, and a 1957 XLA. I'll put them in the Gallery section in the next few days. The XLA has been in the vendor spot next to me for a number of years - I saw the Olive Drab paint, and always thought WLA. But this year, I saw it for what it really is!
Dave
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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby Model H » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:12 am

Good Morning All,

The 58XLH in Oley is mine. Dave, thanks for posting the pics!

I am looking to buy a buddy seat, anyone have one they are willing to part with?

Got any idea on what they are worth?

Thanks,

Mark
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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby Model H » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:20 pm

I don't think I posted this in the past, and I believe Dr. Dick has figured out the -52 and -57 differences. Perhaps he will post.

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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby hennesse » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:08 am

The "extra high chrome plated handrail" is, I think, the only difference between the (later 52501-52) and the 52501-57 - "Buddy Seat, Complete".

As John mentioned, in 1955, the material changed from leather to Royalite, but the part number, of both the "Buddy Seat Top Only", and "Buddy Seat Complete" remained the same.
The grab bar, "Buddy Seat Handle 52547-52" changed to the 52547-52A version in 1957

Hey guys, we're almost ready for a new article for the TECHNICAL section.
I've put together a strawman below. Feel free to pick him apart. Don't be afraid to say "Dave, you're full of [stuff]" as long as you point me in the right direction!
Here goes:


1952 - 1959 - SOLO SADDLE IS STANDARD - (early) BUDDY SEAT IS AN ACCESSORY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1952 - 1954 - Buddy Seat Top Only (52517-52) is Leather. Handrail 52547-52 is flat. (See, photos in hennesse's post, above)
1955 - 1956 - Buddy Seat Top Only (52517-52) is Royalite. Handrail 52547-52 is flat. (See, photos in John R's post, above
1957 - 1959 - Buddy Seat Top Only (52517-52) is Royalite. Handrail 52547-52A rises upwards. (See, photo in Model H's post, above)

A package marked "52501-52 Buddy Seat Complete" could either be the 1952-1954 or 1955-1956 versions listed above, depending on when it was made.
A package marked "52501-57 Buddy Seat Complete" would be the 1957-1959 version.


1960 - only - SOLO SADDLE IS STANDARD - (late) BUDDY SEAT IS AN ACCESSORY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1960 - The Buddy seat changes shape to the colloquial "Sportster Buddy Seat". The rear mount attaches to the top frame horn, behind the shocks.


1961 - 1965 (early) DUAL SEAT IS STANDARD, SOLO SEAT IS AN ACCESSORY, BUDDY SEAT IS AN ACCESSORY
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Dual Seat is narrow, and the rear mount attaches to the top frame horn, behind the shocks.
The Buddy Seat is the colloquial "Sportster Buddy Seat", and the rear mount attaches to the top frame horn, behind the shocks.


1966 - 1969 "UNIVERSAL"(late) BUDDY SEAT IS STANDARD ON XLH, (late) DUAL SEAT IS STANDARD ON XLCH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
XLH: The colloqual "Sportster Buddy Seat" is standard.
XLCH: The (late) Dual Seat is standard. This is similar, but different, from the 1960-1965 Dual Seat.

On the XLH, it is not certain whether the "grab bar" came standard on all years. The Legend Begins shows no grab bar on 1966, a [maybe] accessory garb bar with pad on 1967 and 1968, and a plain grab bar in 1969.


BACK TO THE K MODELS
The Accessory section on the inside rear cover of the 1957 Parts book, shows the 52501-57 Buddy Seat Complete for $39.75. The Top Only is $26.00. The Footrest, Left Complete is $6.10, as is the Footrest, Right, Complete. Those Footrest [L/R] Complete included the actual footrests (and rubbers), as well as the [L/R] brackets. But - $26.00 + $6.10 + $6.10 is only $38.20, leaving $1.55. What's the $1.55 for? I suspect the "Buddy Seat Complete" included the mounting bolts and spacers, as well as the 51526-52 Seat Post Retaining plate, which is shown for the solo seat, but NOT shown (but needed) for the Buddy seat.


Interesting (maybe) Notes:
The 1956 Parts book shows the (early) leather (no-lip) seat on page 38, but the inside rear cover "accessories" page shows the later Royalite (lipped) seat.

If everyone agrees with the foregoing, it's time to do a TECHNICAL article with photos and diagrams that would make this easier to understand.
Ugh, now I've got to do actual work.
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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby Yard Dog » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:11 pm

Dave,

Great topic that needs clarification and if possible, consensus. Look at the inside back cover of the 59 parts book. It has a picture and description of the new for 59 buddy seat. Regarding the second version of the earlier buddy seat ( Royalite covered ) , there are two variants. As with the Royalite covered solo saddles, the buddy seats were made with both a rolled edge and a blunt cut edge. I have received conflicting opinions from very knowledgeable enthusiasts as to the time line on these changes. When I stop riding my 57 and maybe do a proper restoration on it I would like to use the correct seat.

Jack
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Re: Buddy Seat Identification

Postby hennesse » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:55 pm

Yard Dog wrote:Great topic that needs clarification and if possible, consensus. Look at the inside back cover of the 59 parts book. It has a picture and description of the new for 59 buddy seat. Regarding the second version of the earlier buddy seat ( Royalite covered ) , there are two variants. As with the Royalite covered solo saddles, the buddy seats were made with both a rolled edge and a blunt cut edge. I have received conflicting opinions from very knowledgeable enthusiasts as to the time line on these changes. When I stop riding my 57 and maybe do a proper restoration on it I would like to use the correct seat.


Jack,
In my haste (and after several beers), last night, I skipped over the -59 seat. This morning, Jerry Raino sent me a chart that he had done with a lot of good information. I've been going through it, and The Legend Begins to see what was available on a new motorcycle - not what was available as an Accessory or Spare Part. For the K and early XL years, you could get a buddy seat "in place of" the standard solo saddle. In the later years, you could get a buddy seat "in place of" the Dual Seat. In the mid-1960's, things changed again. Well, let me get working on it.

I spoke to Michael Paquette about the raw v. rolled edge some years back, but I forget everything. He's working on my solo saddle right now, so it's a good excuse to call him and re-ask those questions. BTW, my 1962 XLCH came stock with either the Dual Seat or Buddy Seat, the solo seat would have been a Spare Part. But I like the solo. I guess I'll have to get the Dual Seat recovered in case I ever get the bike judged after I get around to restoring it.
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