Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Production K Models

Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby EKHKHK56 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:06 pm

That's a neat idea! The tumbler technique. I had used gravel and Naval Jelly rust remover with some water than shake and stir until you are blue in the face method. Nasty stuff that is though. Great tip Tom.
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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby hennesse » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:35 pm

That gravel idea sounds pretty good. Except that I'd be sleeping alone for a long time if my wife found a motorcycle gas tank in the dryer.

Nuts and bolts don't work at all. I have used drywall screws in the past - they have a lot of sharp edges.

It's hard to get all the water out - I've used a heat gun stuck in the filler opening - it works pretty well. Hair dryers don't work nearly as well.

I used the POR 15 kit (the 3-part cleaner, prepper, sealer kit) on my KH tank. I think the trick is to follow the directions to the letter. RTFD! If you try to shortcut anything - especially getting the tank completely dry before adding the sealer, you will not get good results. Completely dry = completely dry.
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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby hayleyl » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:43 pm

Hello all, I have used both methods - yes granite fish tank rocks are brilliant for tanks in reasonable condition. Instead of a dryer, I've used a mate who has an electric paint can shaker - takes no time at all. A while ago I use POR 15 to line the tank on my 1937 OHV Norton, came up mint. And yes follow the instructions exactly and you will not go wrong. A few word of warning with POR 15 - it does not like modern high ethanol based fuel - at least Australian high E-Based fuel. It melts/peels the lining and turns it into snot that blocks your whole fuel system. I've seen the results first hand and it's not pretty. (3 cases just locally) Having said that, I run premium based fuel in my Norton and have zero trouble with POR 15 tank lining. Not sure what the US Ethanol brew would be like. Cheers Hayley.
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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby hennesse » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:37 pm

hayleyl wrote:A few word of warning with POR 15 - it does not like modern high ethanol based fuel - at least Australian high E-Based fuel. It melts/peels the lining and turns it into snot that blocks your whole fuel system. I've seen the results first hand and it's not pretty. (3 cases just locally) Having said that, I run premium based fuel in my Norton and have zero trouble with POR 15 tank lining. Not sure what the US Ethanol brew would be like. Cheers Hayley.


Hayley,

Australian and US gas seems to be the same - both typically have 10% ethanol. The octane rating is about the same too, although it is labelled differently on the pumps. It appears that Australian gas labelled 95 octane (RON = Research Octane Number) is the same as U.S. gas labelled 90 octane (Research + Motor / 2). It appears that most of the world uses RON, but the US, Canada and Brazil use the R+M/2 number. (Why? I have no idea.)

In my part of Virginia, we can get 87, 89, 91, and 93 (add 5 to get your numbers). In my area, 87 is currently USD 1.90 per gallon. I'm not sure what that is in cubic hectares or however you guys measure it. 89, 91, 93 is considerably more, as few people use it. Non-ethanol gas is available, usually only in rural areas - farmers like it for equipment that sits idle over the winter - and costs about USD 1.00 more. Tax on any kind of gas averages USD 0.48 per gallon.

I wonder if your reported POR 15 problems are really poor-preparation problems. If the tank is not completely dry, the sealer will not stick to the metal. Any place where it doesn't stick will come off and turn to snot, and even worse, gives an "edge" where the gasoline can get under the rest of the sealer. Kinda like scraping paint on the outside of your house - once you start scraping a soft spot, you end up scraping a huge area around it.

Hoist a V.B. for me!

Dave
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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby hayleyl » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:05 am

Hello Dave, yes - Aust' legislation allow a maximum of 10% E. We have 91, 95 and 98 Octane (101 at a few city outlets) and various standard and hotrod type diesel products etc. Quite possibly could have been slightly flawed application of POR 15 kit, but the guys who this has happened to are pretty particular about their machines. Bikes involved were a 71 XL, RD 400 Yamaha and a K1 Honda four. One theory is that the local fuel distributor was creating a 'shandy' before it hit the stations or retail outlets. Dodgy (of middle eastern decent) distributors in our region were caught by authorities adding up to 30 & 40% ethanol to the full to stretch it further. About 18 months ago now. Ethanol is basically free here in bulk. We reckon it was not long after these pricks were caught, the tank issues appeared. May have been a combination that created there result. Premium unleaded is about $1.40 per litre here - out in Northern country Victoria. That's about $5.30 a US gal. ...and sorry Dave - fresh out of Victoria Bitter, but I do have a box of icy cold Carlton Draughts in the shed fridge keeping any eye on my bikes....in fact I think I can hear them calling me right now...Cheers Hayley.
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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby EKHKHK56 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:19 am

We have had situations with "mystery fuels" up here. For awhile they were using oxyfuel which ruined carburetors and fuel pumps as well as making vehicles run poorly and stall out in winter. And smelled horrible raw or burned. You just never know what's coming out of the pump. Normally OK but sometimes....you wonder.
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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby JerrryR » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:42 am

Hi All,
What do you guys think about this "Red-Kote" gas tank sealer? My painter recommended it.
Thanks,
JerryR

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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby DaveC » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:40 pm

I have used Red Kote for over 10 years with no problems. It's in my XLCR gas tank. To remove rust I use about a cup of pea gravel in both gas and solvent cleaned oil tanks. About 5 to 10 minutes of vigorous shaking removes surface rust and scale. I follow up with a solution of citric acid, letting it sit for several days before draining. Citric acid is available in a powder non food form from McMaster Carr or Granger. Citric acid done not harm paint. I usually neutralize it with a weak draino solution and blow dry. You are basically ready for either Red Kote or bare metal. A little WD-40 or Marvel Mystery oil is a good product to protect bare metal.
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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby hennesse » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:47 pm

This might be getting into "Which brand of oil..."

Bruce Palmer recommends Kreem or POR 15. Others say Red-Kote. I wasn't aware of KBS until now. Looking at their website, their 3-step kit sounds just like POR's 3-step kit. And their sealer is the same color as POR's. I suspect all these brands use very similar formulations. The 3-step kits have a "cleaner" to remove dried-up sludge and gunk, a phosphoric acid-based etch to remove rust, and a sealer "paint" that is formulated to resist gasoline.

No one can guarantee that their product is everything-proof. They can advertise their product is most-things-resistant. Take a look at the long list of gasoline additives listed on Wikipedia. There are probably others in use today, and new ones will show up in the future. And if like Hayley, you get gas that is 40% alcohol with god-only-knows what else in it, you are likely to have problems. Nothing is god-only-knows-what-proof.

I really think preparation is the key to success - not which product you use. My KH tank was very rusty, and had a lot of dried sludge on the bottom. I used drywall screws and a lot of shaking, which got most of the rust out, but not the sludge (next time I'll use fish-tank gravel). The POR-kit's cleaner got most of the sludge out, but not all. I had to manually scrape the dried sludge to break it up enough so that the cleaner could penetrate it. This is difficult due to the shape of the tank. After several days of scraping and soaking, the sludge was gone, and I was finally happy with the result.

Getting out the dried-up gasoline sludge is the hardest part. I didn't try solvents such as acetone or MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), but these might help. I'd stay away from muriatic acid or lye, since the metal is already getting thinner on these old rusty tanks - we want to dissolve the sludge, not the tank.

The phosphoric acid etch quickly got rid of the rest of the rust. No problems there.

Completely drying the inside of the tank was difficult. I used a heat gun stuck in the filler opening. One would think that 15 minutes of full-blast heat gun would dry it completely, but it took much longer. Hard to see in there, but I found little wet spots in the corners. I rotated the tank to different positions so the water wouldn't puddle in one spot or another. When I was finally convinced that it was completely dry, I poured in the sealer and rotated. This part went smoothly. Best to do the sealer as soon as possible after drying (and letting the tank cool) so that surface rust doesn't develop.

The sealer forms a pretty thick coat - you definitely want to make sure it does not get in the petcock threads or any other openings, as it is thick and tough, and you'll have difficulty screwing the petcock in if you get it on the threads. You need to put something (like a nail) in the crossover fittings so they don't get clogged.

The finished product is only as good as the prep work.
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Re: Rust removal from inside of gas tank

Postby EKHKHK56 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:39 pm

A lot of good info! Naval Jelly is comprised of phosporic acid for general rust removing and etching. They have an aluminum one now also. Don't know why. Maybe weaker blend or such.
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