KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Racing K Models

Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby starcain » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:39 am

Mutt wrote:So what is the lift and duration of the KHK stamped cam>

According to an earlier post by Patrick, he says duration for the KK/KHK cams is 275 degrees plus or minus 2 degrees manufacturing tolerance.
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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby EKHKHK56 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:51 pm

My original 55KHK had the KHK stamps. I think the duration is "similar" to the early 53R cam set for the 45" KR.
Last edited by EKHKHK56 on Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby wz507 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:29 pm

starcain wrote:
Mutt wrote:So what is the lift and duration of the KHK stamped cam>

The numbered cams and the ones stamped KHK are exactly the same except for the KHK designation. Lift is about .375", duration I can't say. Patrick would probably be able to shed some light on that.

The French Owl and I compared cam data of some KHK cams a few years back and within experimental measuring error the data sets were essentially identical. The set I measured were the narrow gear variant labeled 1, 2, 3, 4. Don’t know which ones Patrick measured.

The plot below shows the 0 lash cam profile obtained. Although the 0.010” duration is not exactly 275 degrees, we must bear in mind that at these extremely low lifts, significant crankshaft rotation occurs with minimal change in lift so comparisons at such low lifts will certainly be subject to variability. The duration at 0.050” would be a better point for comparison where more significant changes in lift occur with crankshaft rotation. With 241 deg duration at 0.050" lift the cams are certainly not a large cam, especially in light of the engine size, but a nice solid cam that would be expected to provide good torque and a very smooth power curve, which they do.

To provide the reader a qualitative feel for the difference between a KHK lobe and a late model KR lobe (Leineweber grind of 1967 “J” lobe) a picture of the 2 lobes is included. After mounting and measuring the J lobes later this spring, will make an overlay plot to show the difference in valve motion of the 2 lobes and post here.

KHK Plot.jpg
KHK Plot.jpg (74.36 KiB) Viewed 2346 times


KHK vs KR J profile low res.jpg
KHK vs KR J profile low res.jpg (140.2 KiB) Viewed 2346 times
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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby thefrenchowl » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:44 pm

Both my 55 KHK and 54 KHK narrow gear sets are numbered 1 2 3 4, same as yours, WZ507...

The measuring was done on my 54 KHK set, assembled and measured directly on valves with correct valve lash and degree wheel on crank.

There's a 10 degree shift between exhaust cams on my set, too much to be an error, so I think it's to do with correcting the rear cylinder inlet bias due to 45 Vee angle.

Finding TDC:

Image

Valve Timing:

Image

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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby xlh59 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:04 pm

As there seems no official "introduce yourself" thread here, let me do it here. I am Ralf from Germany and I am a proud owner of two K´s and two early Irons ... this winter (aside of a never ending XLCH stroker projekt) I am about to work on the 55KH I bought several years ago.
As this thread here seems to be the only substantial conversation on KHK/KR Cams, I have a question:
I had the chance to get my hands on a set of KR cams with the narrow gears and ball bearing shafts. The oil pump drive is for a 1/4 speed oil pump as well. The cams are stamped 1,2,3,4 and have a 1mm punch stamped next to the number. Unfortunately the number one cam got lost somewhere in the shipping process and I need replacement. Has anyone an idea on which set of cam this is and whats te meaning of the "." punch mark? Any help highly appreciated.
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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby starcain » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:29 pm

Welcome to the site Ralf. I am more familiar with the K, KH & KHK cams then I am with the KR cams so not going to be a lot of help on the punch mark. Maybe a special grind? I assume that all the cams in that set you have have the same punch mark? I looked up Patrick's KR cam specs. I thought maybe there might be a reference to the punch but I couldn't find anything. I have attached the pictures, maybe you can get something from it. Hopefully some of the KR guys can shed some light on it for you. I'm sure Patrick could have but he has been on leave for awhile. Patrick, if your still out there somewhere please come back.
Stan
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Patricks KR Cam Sheet (1).jpg
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Patricks KR Cam Sheet (2).jpg
Patricks KR Cam Sheet (2).jpg (269.31 KiB) Viewed 1688 times
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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby wz507 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:00 pm

Hi Ralf and welcome;

What is the lift of the lobe that you have (total lobe height minus base circle diameter)? If it is 0.375" then it is the KHK profile. If it is 0.395" lift, then it would likely be the -53R part number KR lobe. The appearance of the lobe suggests it is one of these short duration intake lobes. If it were a later part number, e.g., -56R part number, it would look more like an ice cube and have the more squared-off profile as shown earlier in this thread by a J lobe profile. The -53R profile would look just like a KHK profile as it has only 281 deg duration at 0.010" lift, whereas all later lobes ,beggining with the -56 part number have at least 307 deg duration @ 0.010" lift, and have the more squared-off ice cube shape.
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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby xlh59 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:31 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome and the replies. I could have thought of measuring the lift.
The lift Seems to be 0.380, so it seems to be the early KR or KHK cam. If I would have several sets of cams, I might use punch marks to mark a set ... One punch for set number one, two punch marks for set number two etc. Does that sound reasonable? So in general I could use a "stock" KHK Cam for number one?
THX, Ralf
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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby wz507 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:10 pm

I think you are right on with the punch marks, the work of a privateer not the factory. And yes, the very early KR and KHK intake lobes are one and the same.
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Re: KR KK or KHK Cams Wanted

Postby starcain » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:19 pm

So your saying the early KR exhaust cams have a different lift then the early KR intake cams? I believe Ralf is looking for a # 1 exhaust cam. What lift does the early KR exhaust cam have? Ralf did you measure the lift on the #4 exhaust cam you have in the set where #1 is missing?
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