KR Parts and Questions

Racing K Models

Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby starcain » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:55 am

55panman wrote:Stan, Did you get the KR also, or do you know who got that? It was one good running KR. Ron

Ron, The family wanted to sell everything Bob had that was motorcycle related in one lot, and there was a lot. Not only racing stuff but street stuff as well. Somehow the planets and stars must have lined up just right because they called a buddy of mine to come over to take a look at it to see if he might know anyone that might be interested in buying it all. Well my buddy is a 45 guy and is not to familiar with K stuff so he calls me up to ask if I would go along with him. I obviously jumped at the chance. I am familiar with street K stuff but racing stuff is outside my wheelhouse. We went and looked at it and were rather overwhelmed by it all. The price tag was big so that put it out of our reach. We told them we would get the word out for them and I think in appreciation for that they let us do some picking. Along with the racing parts I got I was able to pick up some K parts. The last we heard there were a number of people waiting in line to take a look at it all. Haven't heard yet through the grapevine if they have sold it or not. Three daughters and two son-in-laws are handling the estate so agreements could be hard to come by. Now to actually answer your question no I did not get the KR. Ron, are you getting my PMs?
Stan
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby starcain » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:02 pm

thefrenchowl wrote:Hi,

I am a bit surprised by the raduised shelf inside the head... I have never seen it on any head photos or documents, factory or private...

So probably an experiment!

Usually, straight shelf, either square as on K/KH or angled as the KR is the norm except for the very last dome piston heads where it disappeared...

As for your oiltank, if it looks moded, it is probably moded!!! And by an individual, not factory!!!

Put up another photo from the front so we can see if it is just a CH one or an early KR... It looks very CH to me...

A good way to look at KR parts is to look how they look...

If damaged or well worn, these are working parts that were giving lots of HP...

If brand new with an NOS look, they were probably useless and stayed on the shelves...

Cheers, Patrick

Patrick, The information I needed on what oil tank that is was right at my finger tips. The oil tanks in the technical section shows the differences between KR and CH quite well. Sometimes you just can't see the forest for the trees. Definitely early CH. Does the picture of the heads reflect what you are saying about the straight shelf,( square - 52 ) ( angled - 52R ) and ( radiused - 60R ) The other two pictures are of a front head that has a 16691-60R casting number on top and a 16682-52 casting number on the bottom. Anyone ever see that before? It seems to have the same radiused shelf as the 60R heads I have.
Stan
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Last edited by starcain on Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby 55panman » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:25 pm

In you top pic with the three heads. The head on the right is NOT a KR head. It is a straight K model. KR heads have a cast in bronze spark plug boss as the 2 on the left do.
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby LDB » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:17 pm

Can anyone confirm whether or not the 60R head, with the radius shelf, produced the most power? If that design had any real significance, more Harley men would know about it , don't you think?
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby starcain » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:47 pm

55panman wrote:In you top pic with the three heads. The head on the right is NOT a KR head. It is a straight K model. KR heads have a cast in bronze spark plug boss as the 2 on the left do.

Yup I know that Ron, I was just trying to show the differences in the chamber area that Patrick was talking about. I guess I thought without the R designation it would be self evident that it was a straight K Model head but I probably should have marked it as such. Stan
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby thefrenchowl » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:20 pm

Hi, Starcain,

I have I don't know how many KR factory tuning manuals (54 till 69, all OEM, not compilations) and have not seen in them any drawings as your 2 KR heads shown in your photo.

Not so much bothered by the shape of the shelves and recesses, but the lack of depth on the exhaust valve relief, which tells me the corresponding cylinder must have had the exhaust valve seat way below the 1st ring, certainly a no-no...

Std KR lift is .375, 10mm or so. Plus .080 clearance on top of it for good flow pattern, 2mm, so total height needed above seat to head is .455

Just measure what is the depth you have and subtract from .455, that's how low in the head must your seat be.

The top ring lands about .160 from the top deck... So there's a physical limit on how far you can sink the valve seats down the cylinder since the channels linking them to the cylinder walls must be perpandicular to them.

From flow bench experiments in the factory and at other places like Branch or Axtell in them days, the standard K straight shelf was found to be the best for maximum power.

However, with KR hairy cams, that made the engine a touch untractable due to loss of midrange torque. The straight but angled KR shelf restored some of the midrange and was prefered by the factory.

All the KR heads were castings derived from the std K patterns, so they all have both the KR and the K casting idents.

Your 52 K head is actually a KK or a KHK head, see extra milled reliefs for increased KK/KHK lift (from .290 K/KH to .375 KK/KHK)

The KHR cylinders you also shown are real NOS, not even finished as they are missing the final factory applied mirror finish of the channels. I guess someone ordered them raw to apply their own magic, but somehow, they were never finished... Nice find!

Patrick
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby starcain » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:30 pm

thefrenchowl wrote:Hi, Starcain,

I have I don't know how many KR factory tuning manuals (54 till 69, all OEM, not compilations) and have not seen in them any drawings as your 2 KR heads shown in your photo.

Not so much bothered by the shape of the shelves and recesses, but the lack of depth on the exhaust valve relief, which tells me the corresponding cylinder must have had the exhaust valve seat way below the 1st ring, certainly a no-no...

Std KR lift is .375, 10mm or so. Plus .080 clearance on top of it for good flow pattern, 2mm, so total height needed above seat to head is .455

Just measure what is the depth you have and subtract from .455, that's how low in the head must your seat be.

The top ring lands about .160 from the top deck... So there's a physical limit on how far you can sink the valve seats down the cylinder since the channels linking them to the cylinder walls must be perpandicular to them.

From flow bench experiments in the factory and at other places like Branch or Axtell in them days, the standard K straight shelf was found to be the best for maximum power.

However, with KR hairy cams, that made the engine a touch untractable due to loss of midrange torque. The straight but angled KR shelf restored some of the midrange and was prefered by the factory.

All the KR heads were castings derived from the std K patterns, so they all have both the KR and the K casting idents.

Your 52 K head is actually a KK or a KHK head, see extra milled reliefs for increased KK/KHK lift (from .290 K/KH to .375 KK/KHK)

The KHR cylinders you also shown are real NOS, not even finished as they are missing the final factory applied mirror finish of the channels. I guess someone ordered them raw to apply their own magic, but somehow, they were never finished... Nice find!

Patrick

Patrick, Thanks for taking the time to give out all that information. It sounds like I have a real odd set of KR heads. If nothing else they make a good conversation piece. When you say the straight but angled KR shelf are you referring to how the 52R casting head looks? Is that what the 60R heads that you are familiar with would also look like or at least similar? I should have done a better job of describing the 52 casting number head but I was just going by different casting numbers to show the different shelves. Interesting about the cylinders not being polished. That never occurred to me. I am not sure how I lucked out to get them. Thanks again, Stan
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby LDB » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:31 pm

Is it possible that the head with radius shelf was made by someone else other than Harley? Even with the so called lip milled off, look how deep the combustion chamber is in the valve and transfer area. Also where is the part number on the other head with the radius shelf that still had some lip?

The head with the angled shelf, in the 3 head pic, looks a little different than other KR heads I’ve seen. It appears almost to have been machined to shape instead of cast to shape in the combustion chamber.
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby Simon » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:45 am

I have a few sets of KR heads and some experimental ones as well (marked "X" after the casting number) - I'll try to dig them out and takes pics for a comparison.
All interesting stuff!

There was a -69R head for the domed pistons too, wasn't there.
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Re: KR Parts and Questions

Postby wz507 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:15 am

Simon wrote:There was a -69R head for the domed pistons too, wasn't there.

Yes.

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