Time and Attrition

All things K & Sportster

Time and Attrition

Postby jOe » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:13 am

The number of K Models and Sportsters 1952-1969 of all types is known. I wonder at the end of 2017 how many still exist. In 63 years due to crashes,natural disasters or whatever reason, a certain percentage have been lost. I guess there's still some barn/garage finds are still out there but that number has dwindled in the last 30 years. I'd think if 50% still exist that's a lot.
Any guesses?

Just wondering
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby JohnF » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:40 am

Sad to say, many K Models have been parted out from once complete scooters because "salvagers" saw higher monetary gain verse selling a complete or near complete scooter. One main salvager in Wisconsin literally "parts them out down to hardware". Good for some, just takes more restorable scooters off the list. OK if that scooter can't be restored. Just my opinion.
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby mikeslemmon » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:53 pm

sad but true the parts are worth more than the whole 90% of the Harleys ever made are still on the road .......the other10% made it home
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby jOe » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:27 pm

So if there’s profit in parts, someone is buying them to fix up the remaining bikes. BUT- then there will be less bikes remaining in the future to restore . So the overall demand will go down but the prices will either go up because the parts will be scarcer or go down because go down because there’s fewer bikes to restore.
At some point someone might get stuck with a lot of parts.
I saw an episode of American Pickers where some guy had a large warehouse full of Studebaker fenders and sheet metal. Thousands of them. Far more than ever could be sold. There might be a market for a couple of dozen a year, but most will rust away.
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby strong56KH » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:59 pm

I think the demand for aquiring and restoring K’s and early Sportsters will eventually drop off in the next generation. Right now, it is being driven by folks in their 50’s and 60’s who rode these bikes in their youth and now want to bring that era back. Many young people today are riding Evo Sportsters and those are the bikes they will cherish when they reach their 50’s and 60’s, not K’s and early Sportsters. The youth of today will not care about the antique machines because they have no passion for them. The AMCA realizes this and is trying to bring more youth into the hobby. With all the restorations going on now, the market will eventually become glutted with restored K’s and early Sportster’s, many bearing reproduction parts. There seems to be this unrealistic idea that restoring a K or Sportster will make it worth more. I think it falls in line with the “flipping houses” mentality. After you nickel and dime yourself to death buying parts, you have put twice the money into the bike than what you paid for it and are lucky to break even when you sell it. The value of unrestored, original paint, and racing bikes will continue to increase because there will be so few of them and always collectors wanting them. Our knowledge of part morphology, casting numbers, vin numbers, belly numbers, etc. continues to increase and will eventually define what is considered a factory original and its value.
For me, the hobby has always been a fascination of how the different parts of a motorcycle are constructed, how they work as separate units, and ultimately how they work together. In motorcycling, there is no better joy than kick starting a bike and hearing and feeling it roar into life when you are familiar with every single part on it and how they work as a whole.
If I had a chance to do my collecting all over again and I had the cash, I think I would put my money towards an unrestored original paint bike. In most cases, you end up spending about the same or less if you purchase original parts and refurbish others (rechroming, cad plating, welding, and painting).
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby hennesse » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:31 pm

jOe wrote:So if there’s profit in parts, someone is buying them to fix up the remaining bikes.


Yeah, but only some of the parts get sold. Once the fenders, gas tank, motor, etc. get sold, a lot of the other parts languish away in a barn or warehouse (or worse), never to be seen again.

strong56KH wrote:I think the demand for aquiring and restoring K’s and early Sportsters will eventually drop off in the next generation. Right now, it is being driven by folks in their 50’s and 60’s who rode these bikes in their youth and now want to bring that era back.

If I had a chance to do my collecting all over again and I had the cash, I think I would put my money towards an unrestored original paint bike. In most cases, you end up spending about the same or less if you purchase original parts and refurbish others (rechroming, cad plating, welding, and painting).


When I was younger, I would gladly take on big projects that I knew would take years to finish - I had lots of years ahead of me, and was willing to spent the time and effort needed to find those unobtainium parts. Now us 50 and 60-year-olds realize we don't have that many years ahead of us, so we're not willing to take on the big projects, and if we do, we want to get them completed quickly, so we can enjoy them while we still can. Plus, those parts are getting harder and harder to find. So we're willing to pay big bucks for parts when we do find them.

Back to the original question of this thread
jOe wrote:The number of K Models and Sportsters 1952-1969 of all types is known. I wonder at the end of 2017 how many still exist. ... I'd think if 50% still exist that's a lot. Any guesses?


I think for the K/KH, there's less than 10% of the bikes still extant. If you count every K/KH you've ever seen or heard of, and double or triple or quadruple that number, it probably comes out to a few hundred. For Sportsters up to about 1964 or 65, there's a few more, but not really that many. (1957 is an exception) How many 1961 Sportsters have you ever seen or heard of? Production started taking off around 1965, and went crazy in 1968 and 1969 - you see/hear of more 1968-69 Sportsters than probably all the other ones put together!

The number of extant 1968-69s seems to me to far exceed the simple increase in production. I think the reason is that by then, Sportsters were being considered "real motorcycles", and people kept them and fixed them. (Heck, I didn't consider them real motorcycles until 2014!! )

Think back to the 1950s. There were few aftermarket parts - the Harley dealer was really your only source. Used parts? When your 1955 KH broke/wrecked, there were only 1253 in the entire country. If you owned one, the chances are that you never saw another one! No eBay. No Internet. Long distance phone calls cost a fortune. No AMCA until 1954, and then it was really only a small handful of people. So your dead bike probably got parked in the barn, and sat there. And sat there. Ashes to ashes, and rust to rust.
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby jOe » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:52 pm

Back in the ‘68-‘69 time frame, production ramped up to meet the demand (the Easy Rider craze)..but by ‘70 with the introduction of the Honda CB 750 and the Kawasaki Triple it pretty much pushed the XLs to the back of the line (AMF didn’t help. Sportsters just weren’t that popular in the ‘70s. They were just old bikes with no collectors value.
If 10,000 Ks and Sportsters still exist worldwide , I’d be surprised.
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby Kevin56 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:10 am

I'm a remote part of Australia far from the major cities and I am in my 60's. A few years ago I bought a 1974 XLH, running and registered and about 90% original, with the original aluminum rims, which was a major attraction. I didn't think I'd be able to find the missing HD parts so I was going to retro-style it and settle for a few aftermarket replica parts. But then I started exploring Ebay and since then I have been able to source many original items from the salvagers, so now I am committed to restoring it to how it looked in '74 back when I had an XLCH, with only one exception: I will use the metal speedo and tacho from earlier models and not the crap plastic ones it should have. Some HD improvements were not. I'm not a purist, I'm practical. I may buy the original plastic type, but not fit them and let the next owner do that. They are butt-ugly!

I have also started a mid '60's XLCH and have bought enough parts from Ebay and elsewhere to build an entire bike. It won't be a concours show bike but a homage to pre 70's models and a street ride-able fun machine that from 3 feet away looks an unmolested 67' CH . There will be compromises like no magneto but a 1970-71 distributor with automatic advance and retard which also has a tacho-drive. I do have some rare finds; the correct long chain-guard, a brand new ribbed tin chrome primary cover still in it's HD package, a 67 sprint seat in it's box and more. It's a passion to own a '60's model and to achieve both bikes on the road. It is very sad that salvagers are heartless money hungry cretins, the downside being the loss of good bikes, the upside is getting good parts off crappy blacksmithed choppers or rusting hulks that sat in sheds for decades.

There are a few Ironheads in my city owned by younger guys, most are smooth running but chopped or bobbed or blacksmithed (we call it Butchered). Despite smiling to see them ridden I view them overall as junk or spare parts but perhaps one day the young owners (25-40 year old) will get bitten by the restorers bug. I sometimes think it's easier to rebuild a K model and pre-1970 Ironheads in the USA and you guys have a wealth of tech information and discussions on doing it.

I had a good laugh today chatting to an old riding buddy who wants an authentic K model and is convinced he will find one in perfect condition for less than the price of selling his first born grandchild. I shook my head and wished him well.
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby Model H » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:51 am

Kevin,

This one has been on ebay for a about a month.

K's are not my specialty, so I cant speak to what is correct and what is not.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Harley-Davidson-Sportster/192362352543?hash=item2cc9b08f9f:g:VT4AAOSw2HRZ49WL&vxp=mtr
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Re: Time and Attrition

Postby jOe » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:49 pm

Kevin- you’re describing ‘Sportster Stew ‘. A few bits of mid quality beef, mixed with some soggy potatoes and carrots.

Some are also ‘All Ness’ed up’. ( Kirk came up with that one)
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