doing business with forum members

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doing business with forum members

Postby xlh59 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:49 am

Honestly speaking I am a bit indecisive whether it is a good idea to post this in the forum or not. I don’t want to blame others, but there is also a duty to protect other forum members.

I have been doing business with three forum members here and the results couldn’t be more different from what I experienced.

Two deals were really nice: low price, fast and cheap shipping, good packing, all paperwork (important for custom clearance) and excellent communication. I also had something shipped from Germany to the US and I hope I delivered a comparable service …

The other (and the reason why I started this post) was a pure rollercoaster ride, starting from pure excitement to irritation, hope, frustration, promises, silence and, and, and … there was a significant investment made from my side through paypal, but after 4 month and the approx. 25th email claiming that “will ship today or tomorrow” I decided to involve paypal for clarification. I really felt sorry for causing inconvenience, but time was up on my side -- especially as meanwhile I had to let other interesting offers pass by and I was hoping to continue my build. How was I supposed to go about this? Waiting another 4 month and let the paypal buyer protection pass by? Interestingly, all communication stopped immediately after I involved paypal. Finally I was refunded yesterday -- I had hoped that the paypal intervention would cause the seller to finally ship my parts, but it seems that I was wrong … :(

Although I am happy to have received my money back, I still lost 80€ due to the paypal currency exchange practice plus roughly 40€ for telephone calls and SMS sent. Let’s not talk about the permanent feeling of being deceived or the significant time that I spent and that could have been used for something reasonable.

How do other forum members feel about this? Maybe I am not the only person affected …
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Re: doing business with forum members

Postby thefrenchowl » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:50 am

Hi XLH59,

I do not see why this forum and its bunch of members would be any different than the public in general... Loads of good guys and sadly many rotten apples as well...

Our passion for these Ks do not mean all will be smooth at anytime.

I feel for you and I also think it is right for you to point it out...

Thanks for the post...

Patrick...

PS: Once a reply from the culprit is heard, I'm not against ""naming and shaming"" (see chuckthebeatertruck's thread with his UL "KHK" grind cams...) if your "absent seller" does not refund fully out of his pocket your outstanding fees incured from his lack of backbone on top of the PayPal refund you recieved....
Flat Head Forever
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I'm the one who has to die when it's time for me to die so let me live my life the way I want to...
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Re: doing business with forum members

Postby Mike » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:02 am

Hi Ralf,

Sorry to hear you didn't get the frame, I'm in a similar dilemma with the same cat right now. Believe I mentioned to you that past transactions with him were slow and took far too many texts, but he did always come through. Not this time though... I've been waiting for months for the final correct piece I need to start my engine, and he's gone silent.

Too bad. He seems like a nice guy and has offered me advice with my projects but, like you, I've lost confidence in his ability to deliver the goods.

Mike
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Re: doing business with forum members

Postby Mutt » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:36 am

I think every one that does this out to be outed in front of everyone else. It's a disgrace to them and also a deterrent. I never have figured out why some people would let other people suffer the same fate, just because "they didn't want to "hurt that seller's feelings", If ya don't want to be made a fool of, DON'T BE A FOOL to begin with. Name and shame on...................

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COMPLAINTS ABOUT BUYER/SELLER DISPUTES

Postby hennesse » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:19 pm

Hi folks. I'd like to offer some guidance as to what I think is appropriate posting in the Forums regarding buyer/seller disputes.

WHY MAKE YOUR DISPUTE PUBLIC?

Disputes between buyers and sellers are private matters between buyers and sellers. Forum readers are third parties - we can listen, but we are neither judge nor jury - we have no power to settle disputes. So making your dispute public is highly unlikely to resolve your particular dispute.

However, after listening, we may decide not to do business with one or the other of the parties involved. So the only reason to make your dispute public is to warn others about the problems of doing business with the other party.

NON-RESPONSIVE SELLERS
The most common complaint that we hear is that of the non-responsive seller. You agree on a sale, you send money to the seller. You wait an appropriate amount of time, but the seller does not ship the parts. You contact the seller, he says he will ship the parts, but he does not. Then the seller stops responding to your phone calls, texts, and emails.

This is inexcusable, unless the seller got run over by a bus and spent a month in the hospital. Normally, the seller should ship within a few days of receipt of payment, unless otherwise agreed. If unforeseen problems arise, the seller should contact the buyer and explain. Silence is not golden.

I think that bringing this kind of situation out in public - with names - is appropriate. I would be very hesitant to do business with this person, and I would be glad for the warning. No one likes throwing money into black holes.

HOW TO STATE YOUR CASE
State your case clearly and concisely. Best if you cover every step in chronological order:
January 1, 2018 - I (name) called the seller (name) on the telephone, and agreed to buy a widget for $100. The seller said he would ship the widget to me within 3 days of receiving payment.
January 2, 2018 - I sent $100 to the seller via PayPal (cash, check, etc.)
January 15, 2018 - I had not not received my widget, so I sent an email (call, text) to the seller asking when he would ship.
January 16, 2018 - I received an email from the seller saying he would ship within 3 days.
Et cetera.

HOW NOT TO STATE YOUR CASE
Do not throw out wild, unsubstantiated accusations. Do not use abusive language, profanity, name-calling, etc. If you do, people will think you are the one at fault. And you probably are.

RESPONDING TO COMPLAINTS
If you feel you've been unjustly accused, defend yourself. State your case clearly and concisely - as noted above.

STOP POSTING!
Each side gets to make ONE statement. We do not want to listen to people arguing back and forth. We do not want to listen to play-by-play descriptions of subsequent events. The administrators of this Forum may enforce this by banning users (temporarily or permanently) from posting.

If buyer and seller achieve a resolution of the dispute, please post details of the resolution (parts got shipped, money got returned, etc.)


OTHER KINDS OF DISPUTES
The next most common type of dispute is about condition of the parts/service. You know the kind - the seller describes the part as very good - the buyer describes it as very poor. "He said - she said". We really don't want to hear about this kind of dispute unless it's really an egregious case. "Egregious" comes from Latin meaning "outside the flock (of sheep)". So skip the barnyard disputes, and only make public disputes that are "outside of the range of acceptable human activity".

Dave Hennessey
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Re: doing business with forum members

Postby xlh59 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:39 am

Hi all,
thanks for your comments and thanks to dave for the “tutorial” … very helpful and I hoped to get an answer like that.

This is a small forum and I think there is room to take time to clarify issues like that in a civilized and fair way. There is a certain tension between “private” and “of group interest” and best case would be that the conflict will be resolved in a positive way for both sides. So I will try my best to objectively describe what exactly happened.

I was looking for an early 55 KHRM frame and Erik aka EKHKHK56 told me by pm that “we can figure something out” -- that was on March 2nd 2018.
  • March 2nd first contact through pm
  • March 3rd started communication via Email
  • March 6th Erik offered me a really nice 54KHRM frame including swingarm for 1.056$
  • March 7th I sent Erik the funds for the frame via PayPal. Shipping costs would have been paid after shipping rate is known.
  • March 7th Erik states that e received the money and will box the frame and check for shipping rates.
  • March 9th I asked on status for the first time and Erik answers me that he will be “working on that tomorrow” -- In the meantime he offered me a set of valve covers and I agreed on that.
  • March 9th - May 19th During that time I received around 40 Emails from Erik all either on when the shipping will be ready or other parts that are of interest for me. In any Email that came back from my side I mentioned the shipping of the frame and I think I pointed out clearly that this is the most important aspect for me. Additionally we had phone calls and text messages …
Maybe this is a good slot to mention one really important aspect of our conversation. Although there were gaps in communication for a week or two from Eriks side, I never felt that he is doing that on purpose. My impression was that he is a really genuine guy who has an interest that the Ks keep running and was also very friendly on the phone. That’s why I rather wanted to be supportive than creating additional pressure.

  • May 19th I transferred another 200$ to Erik for valve covers to be included. Shipping cost are still unknown.
  • June 20th Another 22 Emails with several “tomorrows” and “Tuesday absolute”…
  • June 28th After 10 days of silence and Erik not answering to Emails and calls I decided to open a conflict in PayPal.
  • June 29th I receive an email with “Tomorrow” as only text.
  • July 9th – July 13th After 10 days gap Erik gets back to me with another 8 Emails that sound like finally he will ship.
  • July 17th As Erik does not answer again to my Emails and calls I decide to request PayPal for buyer protection
  • July 29th I get reimbursed by PayPal – no message since July 13th of any kind from Eriks side.
Honestly speaking I am still eager to buy the frame from Erik, and I would even forget about the PayPal expenses I had, but I think he might not be interested anymore.

Lets keep this fair and simple. Thanks!
Ralf
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Re: doing business with forum members

Postby EKHKHK56 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:41 pm

I'm the slowest. But I have the best parts. 4 months is nothing. I paid for a race chassis and new JDJugs a year ago. RALF. Did you mention the extra and free parts I was looking for for you in a 40 year pile mess? I have a shop I'm trying to work and I pulled these parts all out to sort and than got busy for the season. When i say I have parts it DOES NOT mean I know where they are. I AM NOT a parts supply warehouse, a shipping agency or such. I am sick, I have throat cancer. I have PTSD. NerveShingles, I have upper body paralysis coming and going from neck and spine injuries. I have no medical insurance. Nor does my wife who has MS. My overhead is 3 buildings plus all. I have no help. RALF I did not lose contact with you, I told you I was ready to ship next thing I know you want this part or the other. So I offered them to you and went looking for them. I sent a phot last week of the seat group I found and pulled from my 54. There was a flood from my neighbor and the box got wet. I spent saturday building another box. Now you pull all the money and call me names. Good luck. I spent 6 hours for free refurbishing valve covers for you. All I have ever done is help people with their Ks and ask nothing in return. If you don't have patience you need a different hobby. Average K build is 4 years with most the parts. Erik K
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Re: doing business with forum members

Postby EKHKHK56 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:48 pm

I used to be fast. But I'm old and decrepid and slow now. If you are in a hurry don't call. If you need parts and can wait without pressuring me because I'm already up to my ass in Alligators I'm ready to help like ALWAYS. THANK YOU to all my patient customers who actually appreciate what I do for THEM. One week flies by like a day for me. If I'm too slow, well that's that. Erik K I'm not K Mart, or Burger King, you don't get it your way!!!!
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Re: doing business with forum members

Postby EKHKHK56 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:09 pm

I've sent out over 2400 orders on eBay with 100% satisfaction. Half the problem I have now is finding and losing items before I can ship! I'm a wreck for the last couple years. Shop is a disaster I can't even walk through. But I have never failed to send great parts fast or slow since the 80s. My body is shot. Nothing but pain everyday and night from working wrenching and wrecking and racing since 73. Thanks for understanding. Erik
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Re: doing business with forum members

Postby hd54kh » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:33 pm

First off thank you Erik for your contributions here. Although I have done no business with you I can not speak of your dealings of recent history. Your Ebay listings have been honest, well received and good feedback last time I followed your listings.

You have a huge collection of parts that need to be circulated and it is a daunting task at minimum. I have been downsizing for a move and it is a lot more time consuming than I ever thought. I too fell into wanting to help and wanting to thin out the herd but that and life are tough things to handle. Your current life condition is way beyond what I am dealing with and hats off to you.

When we think our projects are the most important they are not. In such a small audience as we have here relationships are just as important as getting our own projects going. We are a community and we should support it as such. Things like reviving our early Ks to early Sportsters
are not an overnight immediate satisfaction process.

With that said one bad run away deal should not blemish anyones reputation and level of appreciation as we have here. We had another poster simply asking of your being. With this and the other asking of you kind of pushed you to explaining a lot more than you need to. Your a great asset here.

Two things that could have gone different:
The original poster could have just asked here if we have heard from or recently dealt with you (as a second poster did). Yes/No would have different approaches.

Yes - Than there is a business issue. Refund, cancelled transaction, reset and start over ........ than if all else fails public forum warnings and or banning. In your case we would all lose.

No - Lets find out if all is ok, someone familiar with you, other contacts away from here........how can we help if needed.

Now your ownership on this - Simple to state there are issues, you just can not deal with this particular transaction, cancel on your own post here you are tempoarily out of commission......... It is just a few keystrokes to save mud in your face.

In this particular instance a frame of such rarity and your willing to part with it is golden. If we are dealing with restos of this magnitude we need to deal with what we have for a market.
We/you/he should take a breath see what went wrong and move on.

This is one of the best group forums I am a member of for such a small niche. Lets learn from it move on and grow. We need people like the major players here. We are not working on VW Beetles.

Enough ranting I still love this place and all the good people here. I am not the sharpest on building my bike but my knowledge resides here.

Terry

PS - If I needed anything and Erik had it I would still buy it but knowing it is not instant and hope he is well enough to send it.
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