'53 or not

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Re: '53 or not

Postby dlark » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:34 pm

Off topic, but Mutt, how do you cleanse your parkerizeing solution?
Pure HCL or Muriatic? per phosphate?
I usually strain the sediment with a paint strainer until I need to start fresh.
Thanks,
Dave
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Re: '53 or not

Postby Mutt » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:30 pm

I dump it thru a .05 micron filter (MMC has them) dump some straight muriatic acid in the pot and slosh it around til the pans bottom and sides are clean, rinse with water and dump the solution back thru the filter back into the pot.
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Re: '53 or not

Postby wz507 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:19 pm

Mutt wrote:
Mike wrote:My cop buddies at local DMV shop tell me they have chemicals that will bring out original numbers... save for those that have been significantly heated. Mike

Here is the abstract report on bringing back old numbers using reagents

A study has been made of the characteristics of restoration of obliterated engraved marks on aluminium surfaces by etching technique. By etching different reagents on 0.61 mm (.024") thick sheets of aluminium (99 wt%) on which some engraved marks had been erased to different depths it was found that the reagent 60% hydrochloric acid and 40% sodium hydroxide on alternate swabbing on the surfaces was found to be the most sensitive one for these metal surfaces. This reagent was able to restore marks in the above plates erased down to 0.04 mm (.0015" or 1½ thou) below the bottom of the engraving. The marks also presented excellent contrast with the background. This reagent was further experimented with similar aluminium surfaces, but of relatively greater thickness of 1.5 mm (059"). It was noticed that the recovery depth increased slightly to 0.06 mm (.002"); this suggested the dependence of recovery depth on the thickness of the sheet metal. Further, the depth of restoration decreased in cases where the original number was erased and over which a new number was engraved; the latter results are similar to those of steel surfaces reported earlier [M.A.M. Zaili, R. Kuppuswamy, H. Harun, Restoration of engraved marks on steel surfaces by etching technique, Forensic Sci. Int. 171 (2007) 27–32].

A couple thoughts on the method Mutt quoted for revealing the engine serial number. The maximum concentration of HCL in water is ~ 37 %, so there is no such thing as 60% HCL solution. I believe when the article suggests a 60% HCL solution, they are referring to 60 parts concentrated HCL solution (37% HCL in water) plus 40 parts water. The basic solution containing 40% NaOH is certainly plausible as a solution containing ~ 52 wt% NaOH can be prepared in water. Below is an excerpt from the article which suggests 3 minutes swabbing time with the acid solution, then wipe clean and dry, rinse with acetone, then repeat the entire procedure with the basic NaOH solution. Alternate acid and base swabbing is continued using the above protocol until restoration of the number occurs.

acid-base etching of aluminum.jpg
acid-base etching of aluminum.jpg (32.28 KiB) Viewed 9943 times

I would add that before starting such an undertaking the number block should be scrubbed with a stiff brush and solvent and/or cleaning agent to remove any oily contaminants so that when etching commences it occurs uniformly across the number block. The reagents described in the test protocol are strong acids and bases and you will definitely see etching/foaming occurring and smell chemistry going on. If you feel etching is proceeding too rapidly/aggressively, dilute a small amount of the concentrated solution 1:1 with water and try that as the etching rate of the diluted solution will be much slower. My intuition is that the specified acid and base concentrations are too high and that etching would be more aggressive than I might like. Then again I may be dead wrong and the small amount of reagent on the cotton-tipped swab limits the extent of reaction and etching proceeds at a controllable level. At any rate I'd try it on some scrap aluminum before getting after the number block on the case. If you try let us know how you make out.

If you don’t have the specified reagents on hand, muriatic acid (HCL in water) will work fine for the acid and Drano crystals (NaOH) dissolved in water will provide an adequate strength base solution. Drano liquid is also a strong base and would be suitable.
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Re: '53 or not

Postby K Daddy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:57 pm

I'm having trouble getting pictures from my phone back to the forum.
I managed to get a decent pic of the VIN and will attach it. If I hold a spotlight at a slight angle to the boss, I can make out 52K 2064 and this should be the serial number, or VIN, right?
The belly numbers match and are 553-2234. From the "numbers" discussion, the belly numbers would indicate the cases were machined in 1953. Does the 553 indicate a repair?
I can't find any frame number at all.
So should I use 52K 2064 as the s/n of the bike?
I'm going to the DMV tomorrow and see if I can get a salvage title.
What do you think of re-stamping the 52K 2064 so it is legible?
Attachments
VIN.jpg
VIN.jpg (177.91 KiB) Viewed 9934 times
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Re: '53 or not

Postby Mutt » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:05 pm

[q
If you don’t have the specified reagents on hand, muriatic acid (HCL in water) will work fine for the acid and Drano crystals (NaOH) dissolved in water will provide an adequate strength base solution. Drano liquid is also a strong base and would be suitable.[/quote]



Thanks, I have LOTS of chemicals on hand. As a antique motorcycle restorer, you need a LOT of chemicals.
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Re: '53 or not

Postby strong56KH » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:29 pm

Change out the bolts holding your cylinders down to studs. These will ruin the threads in your case. Looks like there is paint or something applied over the vin number and on the case surface to the left, but hard to tell. The cases were produced for the 53 model year but I suppose could have been stamped as a 52? I wouldn't suggest altering the numbers in any way, just clean pad with a little Zud and an old toothbrush.
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Re: '53 or not

Postby starcain » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:29 pm

Still pretty hard to see the Vin # on the pad but when I look at my monitor at an exaggerated angle it sure looks like 52 K. The problem is if the belly numbers are 553-2064 the cases are 1953's . Can't hardly have a '52 Vin and have '53 cases the way it originally came from the factory. Could be 1953 replacement cases though. Are the belly numbers good and legible?
Stan
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Re: '53 or not

Postby K Daddy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:58 pm

strong56KH wrote:Change out the bolts holding your cylinders down to studs. Looks like there is paint or something applied over the vin number and on the case surface to the left, but hard to tell.


I agree that studs are needed for the cylinder to crankcase. There is no paint or anything else applied at or near the VIN number. It's just the way light is reflected.
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Re: '53 or not

Postby hennesse » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:59 pm

Absolutely do NOT try to restamp the Serial ("VIN") in any way. Since you don't have a title, it is pretty likely that you will have to take the vehicle for a "VIN inspection", and you don't want the sheriff or state police to see any "alterations".

Before 1970, Harley-Davidson stamped a "Serial number" ("VIN") on the left side of the engine, and that was the only identification number. There was no identification number on the frame.

A little history: Beginning with model year 1970, Harley-Davidson started stamping the VIN into both the engine and the frame, as required by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 115, and at the same time changed the format of their VIN numbers. A revision to FMVSS 115, starting with the 1981 model year, implemented the now-familiar 17-digit VIN number. The 17-digit VIN format was slightly modified in 2008.
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Re: '53 or not

Postby JerrryR » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:18 pm

Before you do a salvage title check with the state on what that means. In Illinois they stamp your cases with those 16 or 17 digits which greatly diminish the bikes value.
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