'53 or not

[K Daddy]

I was told my K is a 1953. I don't have a title and I can barely read the stamping on the left side of the cases.
If I stare at it long enough, I think it says K 52.
Is there any way to tell if is truly a 53 or 52 by some design change between the two years? All I have is a frame and engine at this point.
I wonder how in the devil I will ever be able to get a title with no year and no serial number. I''m in Kentucky so I have to play by their rules.

[JerrryR]

Post a good picture of the frame and left and right sides of the motor with the primary, cam and kicker covers off as well as the belly numbers. We should be able tell a lot from these. The belly numbers alone should ID the motor but if someone has messed with the VIN they may have also modified the belly numbers. The pictures of the cases can verify if the belly numbers are legit.

[sean]

Should read 52k then a 4 digit number

[Maxcapacity]

Also, look for the frame date code on the right side of the rear tank mount boss. There should be a letter and a number (in either order) stamped in the spot-faced part of the casting.

[JerrryR]

The earliest k frame date code I'm aware of that was not a race frame is E3, May of 53. Your frame if it is a 52 or 53 frame most likely does not have a date code. The belly numbers sort of relate to model year. 52 for a 52 vin, 53 for a 53 vin. You can have an early 53 vin with a high 52 belly number. It is also not unusual to have replacement cases that could have a variety of belly numbers.

[hennesse]

I was told my K is a 1953. I don't have a title and I can barely read the stamping on the left side of the cases.
If I stare at it long enough, I think it says K 52.
Is there any way to tell if is truly a 53 or 52 by some design change between the two years? All I have is a frame and engine at this point.
I wonder how in the devil I will ever be able to get a title with no year and no serial number. I''m in Kentucky so I have to play by their rules.

K Daddy,
Read the "Numbers" article over in the Technical section. It tells you what the various numbers are supposed to look like and where they are supposed to be. Then take photos and post them here.

Since you don't have a title, your first priority is to find out if you can get one - before you put any money into the bike.

Kentucky is not a bad place to be in your situation. Read this page from the Kentucky DMV - particularly the section Classic Motor Vehicle Project Title and Restored Classic Motor Vehicle Project. Kentucky seems to have a good path for people like us restoring old "piles of parts".

When I read the page, I see things like "Bill of Sale", "Affidavit of Ownership", "Assigned number". Good things!

Well, post some photos. Once we see the engine's serial number and belly numbers, we can provide more guidance.

Dave

[K Daddy]

I incorrectly typed the engine number on the boss just below the cylinders on the left side. I said I thought it was K 52. I should have said it appears to be 52K although it is very hard to make out.

[Mike]

My cop buddies at local DMV shop tell me they have chemicals that will bring out original numbers... save for those that have been significantly heated. Mike

[Lisa]

A coin collector shop sells a chemical that will help stand out the year on coins that might work ?

[Mutt]

My cop buddies at local DMV shop tell me they have chemicals that will bring out original numbers... save for those that have been significantly heated. Mike

Don't believe everything cops tell ya. Your cop buddies are just regurgitating what cops have been telling people for years (it's nothing more than a "hopeful" deterrent to try and put the fear of getting caught into would be criminals.

Reality is: There is no chemical that can pull up old numbers on cases, IF they have been ground down more than .004" past the depth of the original stamp. I've heard that since the 80's.

I think they are referring to the VIN numbers stamped on those thin aluminum or brass data plates that are about 1/16" thick.

Here is the abstract report on bringing back old numbers using reagents

A study has been made of the characteristics of restoration of obliterated engraved marks on aluminium surfaces by etching technique. By etching different reagents on 0.61 mm (.024") thick sheets of aluminium (99 wt%) on which some engraved marks had been erased to different depths it was found that the reagent 60% hydrochloric acid and 40% sodium hydroxide on alternate swabbing on the surfaces was found to be the most sensitive one for these metal surfaces. This reagent was able to restore marks in the above plates erased down to 0.04 mm (.0015" or 1½ thou) below the bottom of the engraving. The marks also presented excellent contrast with the background. This reagent was further experimented with similar aluminium surfaces, but of relatively greater thickness of 1.5 mm (059"). It was noticed that the recovery depth increased slightly to 0.06 mm (.002"); this suggested the dependence of recovery depth on the thickness of the sheet metal. Further, the depth of restoration decreased in cases where the original number was erased and over which a new number was engraved; the latter results are similar to those of steel surfaces reported earlier [M.A.M. Zaili, R. Kuppuswamy, H. Harun, Restoration of engraved marks on steel surfaces by etching technique, Forensic Sci. Int. 171 (2007) 27–32].

So as long as the "artist" has ground the boss or case bottoms down at least .004" past the bottom depth of the original stamp, there is no way to pull up an old VIN, especially if another number has been stamped over it or impossible if the VIN has been welded over.

I have some old junk (severely broken) case halves and I have both chemicals on hand (hydrochloric acid, for cleaning particulates out of my parkerizing solution) and sodium hydroxide (for removing all organic matter from pot metal carb bodies before chromating them), Maybe I can do this experiment my self !!!!