steering neck angles

All things K & Sportster

Re: steering neck angles

Postby JerrryR » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:44 pm

I have a racing frame that I acquired a couple years back that I think probably qualifies as a one of a kind from the race department. The gentleman I bought it from said he was a personal friend of Al Burke, a factory racer, and that Al gave him the frame. What is unusual about it is that it has a solid steel backbone and front downtubes. It ways a ton and my racing friends say it defies logic to build a frame like this. If it makes a difference I guess Al was the factories short track racer. I did find an article on line that talks about Al and that the factory made him a special frame.

Frame Left Side.jpg
Frame Left Side.jpg (274.38 KiB) Viewed 10849 times


Lower back.jpg
Lower back.jpg (209.44 KiB) Viewed 10849 times


Neck Casting 52A.jpg
Neck Casting 52A.jpg (211.28 KiB) Viewed 10849 times
User avatar
JerrryR
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:39 pm

Re: steering neck angles

Postby JerrryR » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:46 pm

More Al Burke pictures.

Al Burke 1.JPG
Al Burke 1.JPG (153.18 KiB) Viewed 10849 times


Al Burke 2.JPG
Al Burke 2.JPG (130.86 KiB) Viewed 10849 times


s-l1600 (1).jpg
s-l1600 (1).jpg (189.47 KiB) Viewed 10849 times
User avatar
JerrryR
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:39 pm

Re: steering neck angles

Postby hugoct » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 am

Frames and changes to frames had to be submitted to the AMA and approved by members of the Competition Committee before a frame could be used in AMA Class C professional racing. Once a frame or frame revision was approved the approval was published out to the AMA referees who were responsible for tech and rules enforcement at the races. The 52R, 52R revisions, 58R, 58R revisions, Hi-Boy 1, Hi Boy 2, Lawwill/Belland, Jennings/Branch, Lowboy frames and others with their documentation along with the various brakes, forks and gas tanks approved were all published in various bulletins . The Harley Factory archives would have all those records but access there has been an issue of late. One can only hope to luck onto old AMA Referee's bulletins which documented the approved equipment.
hugoct
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:51 am

Re: steering neck angles

Postby 55panman » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:36 am

Frame and changes had to be submitted but that didn't mean that many didn't make subsitutes of parts and materials. Mark Brelsford had aluminum cylinders on his "Goliath" XLR TT bike. Those were never submitted for approval!!
55panman
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: steering neck angles

Postby hugoct » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:15 am

Please ask Jim Belland regarding your contention. Your story is not accurate. It is one of the many apocryphal myths that gains credence over time by being repeated so often. The AMA Class C rules were quite clear that a competitor had to use the manufacturer's crankcases, cylinder/s, and head/s from the approved motorcycle. Jack Wilson built a Triumph with a Chantland aluminum cylinder for Mike Kidd to ride at the Astrodome and was told he could not run it at tech. Running aluminum cylinders on an XLR would have been illegal and would have resulted in a protest from the BSA or Triumph boys who would have loved to have denied Brelsford the Championship in 1972. Mark Brelsforsd and Mert Lawwill did not need to cheat to win races and the Grand National Championship. Belland's Sportster XLRTTs built for Lawwill and Brelsford in their final form sported shortened Sportster barrels with the fins trimmed back and a lot of holes drilled in them. The XLR heads also had a lot of holes drilled in them. They ran shortened barrels with stroker pistons so they could lower the center of gravity. The cylinders were the same cast iron material as all Sportsters. They did show up at the Astrodome one year with aluminum heads which were not approved, were told they would be protested and rebuilt the engine with the proper components in order to be able to race the event. I am blessed to be the guardian of one of the Belland XLRTTs.
Last edited by hugoct on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
hugoct
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:51 am

Re: steering neck angles

Postby thefrenchowl » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:11 am

Strange idea to build a frame with steel bars...

The guy must have wanted more weight cause it's a known law of mechanics that for the same material/size, the tube will be lighter and stronger than the bar...

Thanks Bill for the clarifications on Class C rules procedures...

Your only hope in them days to bend the rules was if your opposition also bend the rules so no one would complain or claim your "at the limit" parts...

Patrick
Flat Head Forever
https://web.archive.org/web/20071011184353/http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/index.htm
I'm the one who has to die when it's time for me to die so let me live my life the way I want to...
thefrenchowl
 
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:33 pm

Re: steering neck angles

Postby hugoct » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:23 pm

I just got off the phone with Jim Belland who built the Sportster XLRTTs for Mert Lawwill and Mark Brelsford.
They never had, much less ran, alloy cylinders for the Sportster XLRTTs
They did have aluminum heads for the Sportster XLRTTs but never ran them in races as they were illegal.
There were problems with those heads, the Alloy XR had arrived, and they were in contention for the Championship.
It would make sense before casting dispersions against some of the sports icons to make sure one is not merely repeating and posting a slanderous story which is pure fiction.
Whether the allegations originally stem from jealousy, a highly charged imagination or a desire to look like an insider the end result is not appreciated.
hugoct
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:51 am

Re: steering neck angles

Postby 55panman » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:09 pm

OK---- Sorry for spreading a rumor that I had read in a couple of different places years back. I'll make sure I fact check in the future before making statements.
55panman
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: steering neck angles

Postby hugoct » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:11 pm

Your attitude is appreciated. Have a nice day.
hugoct
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:51 am

Previous

Return to General K / Sportster Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests

cron