Downtube weep hole question

[hennesse]

I have a 1970 XLCH. It came with a buddy seat, which I didn't like - too high, too wide. I found an original Dual Seat, which is better. Then I found an original 51901-52 seat tee which is used with the 52000-40 "long" solo seat. With the tee came a repro seat, which has the rear mounting holes slightly in the wrong places (mfg defect), but I managed to get it mounted to the tee.

I went to put the springs (from my 1962 XLCH) in the 1970 downtubes. The right one went in, and came out just fine. The left one wouldn't go in all the way. I poured some penetrating oil in the left downtube, and - surprise - nothing came out the "weep hole" on the front of the downtube. I poured some in right downtube, and it came out the weep hole. I took off the rear fender rubber buffer and bracket, and was able to poke a stick in through the bolt holes and out the weep holes. Hmmm.

I scraped the left downtube with various long things, and dislodged enough rust so that the springs will go in to the proper depth, and come out when bidden. But the left downtube is filled with rusty penetrating oil. And the reason it's rusty is that the bottom of the downtube should have a small passageway so that any water that gets in can come out through the weep hole. I want to make it do that.

If YOU have ever replaced broken downtubes, you will probably know what the "small passageway" looks like, and can let me know!

Maybe mine is packed with rust. Maybe it was manufactured poorly. The only kind of long drill I have a foot-long 1/2" SpeedBore drill bit. Perhaps it could dislodge rust packed in the passageway. Perhaps it could make a small, but not deep hole with it. But I don't want to mess up the frame!

HELP! If you have any experience with this, please guide me in the correct direction.

Dave

[hennesse]

OK, I'm gonna answer my own question.

The "passageway" at the bottom of the downtubes seems to be an irregularly shaped hole. I put the SpeedBore down into the middle of the clear downtube, rotated gently by hand, and it sunk a little and caught when it got to a certain orientation (or 180 degrees). Same thing on the clogged side, but the orientations didn't match, and it didn't sink but a tiny amount. Tapped gently with a hammer, pulled out easily, repeat. After awhile, liquid started oozing out of the bolt and weep holes. Cleaned out real well with penetrating oil, then WD-40, then air, then Brake Clean. Done.

I used a 5/8" Speedbore, but a 1/2 or 9/16 should work better. The 12" long ones are used in home construction to run wires and small pipes through 2x4 studs.

Uneeda 12" long one

speedbore.jpg (16.3 KiB) Viewed 34670 times

Now I can install the long solo, and see if I really like it. If so, I'll embark upon a long and arduous qwest to find an original 52000-40 seat.

Repros of these seats are common. I think Corbin-Gentry makes them. I wonder if the one I got (for free, so I can't bitch) is a one-of-a-kind manufacturing defect, or is every one of them defects? I guess you'd need an original tee to know. The previous owner of my tee had enlarged the rear holes slightly, but that wasn't enough for it to line up properly (maybe that's why he threw it in with the tee). I removed the thread from the bolts where they went through the tee, and this allowed just enough clearance to work. Will probably redo it with grade 8 bolts. So I got an inexpensive testbed to test out whether I really like the "long solo" or not. BTW, the 1976 Spare Parts Catalog shows the long solo "Used on" 65-70 XLCH, 67-70 XLH. What happened in 1971?

[murph]

I have had success with a modified 3/4 inch pipe fitting brush and an 18 inch long 1/4 inch extension bit. Cut the handle off the brush insert the brush into the extension tighten the set screws and put it in a cordless drill. Do it before you use any lubricant, Brake clean preferrably if needed. Also modified an extention on my air compressor to blow things out. Don't force anything down the tube they should drop right in. Just my two cents.

[Model H]

Not the same as Dave's issue - When the PO restored the 59 CH I own, he powder coated the frame. No issue for him as he used a standard 2 up seat. I wanted to go with a -54 seat. When the frame was powder coated the holes in the frame were not sealed off. Hence over spray of powder coat down the tubes. I ended up buying a 53/64 hand reamer. My bother drilled and tapped the end to accept a bolt. If memory serves me correctly we used a t handle and an extension. We attached some safety wire in case the reamer dropped down the tube. It cleaned it all up very nicely. I bought one of those foam paint brushes and cut it down to fit in the tubes. Attached a1/4" extension and made sure it was secured enough not to pull off. I dipped that foam brush into some silver rustoleum I had laying around. The silver allowed me to see if I missed anywhere. Greased up the springs and we were good to go...I thought we may have videoed it and put it on the youtube channel, but I guess not.

[JerrryR]

Make sure the weep holes at the top of the tomahawk and bottom of the rear down tubes facing the motor are not also plugged up. They allow the rear down tubes to drain.

[Ferrous_Head]

The solo's were still there in the parts book in 1971.
5200-40 Listed as fitting 65 to * XLCH and 67 to * XLH.
52010-54 Listed as fitting 54 to 64 KH, XL, XLH, XLCH
65 & 66 XLH
69 to * XLH, XLCH


The * indicates "To present" and the parts book I have was published in Septemeber 1970. But it's listed as "For 1971 Sportsters"

Now, that really doesn't make a lot if sense to me. It implies the -54 seat was not used on 65 to 68 XLCH's. Perhaps not used on "stock" builds.

But like so many other things I believe you cold have ordered from your dealer a -54 seat on your 1968 XLCH if you wanted one.

I think the 1972 seat casting did not have the holes drilled for the seat mount plate. So, the solo may not have been an option in 1972.

[Magneto Sportster]

The solo's were still there in the parts book in 1971.
5200-40 Listed as fitting 65 to * XLCH and 67 to * XLH.
52010-54 Listed as fitting 54 to 64 KH, XL, XLH, XLCH
65 & 66 XLH
69 to * XLH, XLCH


The * indicates "To present" and the parts book I have was published in Septemeber 1970. But it's listed as "For 1971 Sportsters"

Now, that really doesn't make a lot if sense to me. It implies the -54 seat was not used on 65 to 68 XLCH's. Perhaps not used on "stock" builds.

But like so many other things I believe you cold have ordered from your dealer a -54 seat on your 1968 XLCH if you wanted one.

I think the 1972 seat casting did not have the holes drilled for the seat mount plate. So, the solo may not have been an option in 1972.

The longer -40 seat was used 1965-68.

[Ferrous_Head]

Yes, I just believe if you wanted a short seat on your 66 XLCH you could have ticked the box at the dealers and had it built that way.

Harley built a certain number of "stock" bikes for the dealers but then also accepted orders for more bikes. They could have different options to what the factory was supplying as "stock" for that year. The paerts book MAY just reflect what HD was building as "stock" that year.

I believe you can fit the long or short version to any frame from 52 to 71. But I could be wrong.

[Magneto Sportster]

Yes, I just believe if you wanted a short seat on your 66 XLCH you could have ticked the box at the dealers and had it built that way.

Harley built a certain number of "stock" bikes for the dealers but then also accepted orders for more bikes. They could have different options to what the factory was supplying as "stock" for that year. The paerts book MAY just reflect what HD was building as "stock" that year.

I believe you can fit the long or short version to any frame from 52 to 71. But I could be wrong.

I don't know that it is quite as simple as your are making it sound. There were seat choices, rim choices, paint choices, etc. But those were defined on the order form. If you checked the box for "solo seat" on a 1965-68, you were getting the long solo. However, a dealer could supply the -54 short seat if you wanted and they had one in inventory, or ordered it out of the accessory catalog.

[hennesse]

Yes, Harley did have a "base model", and then a list of options, some available only in "groups". Much like automobile manufacturers, at the beginning of the model year, Harley would ship an initial stock to the dealers, and it was the mix of what Harley wanted to ship to the dealers. Not surprisingly, most of the bikes were not the base model, but had various optional gee-gaws on them. Gee-gaws = additional profit for Harley and dealer alike. For example: Most of the mid-later 1960s bikes came from the factory with the optional speedo/tach kit. It looked sexy, and it was an easy sell. As the year progressed, dealers had more say in what they got for re-stocking.

I agree with Magneto - the option list was the option list. You could not order a new bike with an option that was not on the list. If you wanted something special, the dealer would most likely provide whatever you wanted - for a price. This includes paint. If a customer wanted his new bike painted Putrid Puce, the factory would refuse, but the dealer, with $$$ in his eyes, would probably do it. Twenty years later, that customer would swear that it had come from the factory that way. But the AMCA judges would say "Show me the documentation". And they'd be right.

Customer special orders were few and far between, according to Dean Hummer, for whom the Harley Hummer was named - and the only Harley to have a person as its official name. Dean was a dealer in Omaha in the 1950s and 1960s, where he outsold Cushman motorcycles in Cushman's hometown. Harley listened to him when he described what lightweight would sell best, and they built what he suggested and named it after him. Dean passed away at 96 a week ago. Dean said that special orders took months, and often the riding season would be over by the time the bike came in, and the customer would be pissed. So he encouraged people to buy what's on the showroom floor.

Harley's book, The Legend Begins, has order forms for all the years through 1969. And therein are our "option lists". It also has photos of all the bikes for each year. But remember, these were advertising photos, and they weren't necessarily the "base model". They were what Harley wanted the public to see, so they might sport some optional gee-gaws. (And sometimes prototypes with some last year's parts!)

1903-1969 The Legend Begins

Part# 99403-93 - Shows the evolution of H-D street vehicles. This beautiful, hardcover "coffee table" book lists the colors, equipment and accessories that were offered for each year and model, including information on police vehicle equipment and accessories. Also includes production figures and a model description guide. A must for restorers/collectors, as well as enthusiasts. (Racing bikes, war models, and the Italian-built lightweight motorcycles are not included.) MSRP US $45.00

This book is still available from your local Harley dealer. He won't have it in stock, but he can order it from the factory. You really, really need to have one of these.

Dave